Javier: 0:34

Hey there, beautiful souls. Welcome to Built For Love. I'm your host, Javier Ortega. When I first started thinking about this podcast, one of the first people who came to mind was Yvonne. We've had many conversations about dating, breaking it down from different perspectives and experiences. Yvonne is a 46-year-old dad of teenagers balancing work, fatherhood, and dating. His perspective provides insight into the realities of dating as a man in his forties, navigating connection, attraction, and intention while juggling career and family life. This episode is a must listen for men in this age group and for women who want to understand how men in their forties think about love and relationships. I. All right, so let's get into it. Yvonne, thank you for being here. Are you currently seeing anyone or are you in the dating pool and how's that going for you?

Ivan: 1:32

Uh, well, I'm not currently seeing anyone, but I am, uh, open for dating. I am in the dating pool, and I think that that's what this, uh, conversation will help people understand and myself understand, right. What we, uh, what we're doing and what we need to do.

Javier: 1:51

Right, right. I, I personally am a huge fan of how, uh,, how mature Yvonne sees dating, but how he's able to articulate so well. Right. Because he has a, he has a good understanding of, of his and his needs and desires. So, Yvonne, how would you describe the dating scene right now from your perspective and what's been the biggest challenge?

Ivan: 2:14

I mean, I, I think that, uh, the dating scene right now, it seems a little bit desperate.

Javier: 2:20

Okay.

Ivan: 2:21

And in a sense of a lot of people wanting a lot of things. But what makes it challenging is those people not being able to provide what they're asking for. Mm. People are asking for long, long-term relationships that they perhaps are not ready or they cannot offer because I've come across people that they still not divorce. Wow. Or just separated. So how can you ask for something like that, a long-term relationship when you're not even legally able to provide something like that? Right. So, so I think that it creates, uh, a little bit of desperation and it shows, uh, potential. Partners that are not ready or they understand what it takes to, to be ready, uh, which it forces you to, uh, navigate this environment with some caution and sometimes with some apprehension of what is going to happen because you only have to go by what people are telling you. Mm-hmm. And you kind of have to discover a lot of things on your own.

Javier: 3:41

But it sounds like a lot of people are just looking to like, just have somebody that like jump right into it. Like you say, it's coming from this desperate place of like, uh, you know, we've had conversations like, don't go food shopping when you're hungry because you're just trying to, you know, your judgment gets impaired. Right,

Ivan: 3:59

right. Exactly. So, so I mean, I think that it's understandable, right? They, they could be either, uh, single for a long time. Sometimes we feel that we can manage everything on our own. Uh, a very common, uh, word that is utilized today is I'm independent

Javier: 4:20

and,

Ivan: 4:20

and, uh, and to me that, uh, can create separation. Uh, but you get tired and people wanna share those accomplishments or they wanna share memories with someone and they decide to do it, and they think that they, that it will happen overnight, right? And, and that creates that, that sort of hunger or desperation or they bad relationship or coming out of one that is bad and they wanna jump right in because they wanna have, you know, some, some comfort and, and, and it confuses, uh, themselves and perhaps the other person that, that they're meeting.

Javier: 4:59

Two things come to mind. Uh, two things I wanna. Uh, I guess move towards or point out. Um, so you said this independent thing, um, creating some separation. What do you mean by that? Can you expand on that?

Ivan: 5:13

Yeah, so, so independence. Uh, think about it like you working for a corporation, right? And then you realize, um, I could do all of this on my own. Mm-hmm. So you decide to break away from this group, right? That that is a corporation and you want to go and do it this on your own terms. So you are no longer wanna be part of that environment. So when I hear I'm independent, you're telling me that you don't want to integrate. And the idea of a relationship is two individuals coming together. Perhaps what people want to say is, I'm still sufficient. Which is different than being independent. And I think that for today's standards, being self-sufficient is a minimum requirement. If you're an adult, you know, having a, a job, being able to have a car and, and, and pay for yourself, uh, it is expected, right? And, and, and we're going to join forces, we're going to come together in a relationship as partners. That doesn't happen when you're an independent. The word itself, it tells you, I'm all by myself. I'm here, but I'm not part of you. Right. I like to say it's like the kid that comes to, to the playground. He said, these are my toys, and he wants to play in the same sandbox as the rest of the kids. So that I right there, it makes it difficult because you're telling me, uh, I, I don't want to be part of you. I wanna be there. But not with you. So if you think about it, then what do you become? You perhaps become another accessory of their accomplishments. Right? And these are the people that that tell you, I have, I've accomplished all of this, right? Because also, I'm not looking to date someone that is 20 years younger than me. I try to date someone that is comparable to me. So things are more or less equal. So if you don't want to be part of it, or if we're not canceling things out because we have the same offerings, you're saying that you're independent, you're, you're separating.

Javier: 7:40

Hmm.

Ivan: 7:41

You know, so when am, when am I important? Only when it's convenient to you. When, when you're done doing everything else that, that you want to do on your own. And then now, okay, let me pick up these accessories that I have and I'm gonna spend time with'em. So, so I pay attention to, to that when someone said, oh, I'm independent, then I'm like, well, well, maybe we're not going to to connect because you are telling me from the very beginning that you don't want to integrate. Right. You, you, when you want to integrate, you share what you have.

Javier: 8:17

Right?

Ivan: 8:18

So that's the the way I see the word independence and, and I think that from the get go, it creates a, uh, uh, an incompatibility if you are looking for a relationship.

Javier: 8:30

I mean, I think too, it's like people can have the, and this is just to look at this from a different angle. People can have their own definition of any word. Right. And so for someone, you know, independent can just mean, you know, I, I am very like whole, I am very complete. I am very, um, mature, to be able to like jump into a relationship. But at the same time, to your point, a lot of people don't use independent that way. A lot of people are using independent to like, look for validation, whether they know it or not. Because I did it at some point. I did it. Where I was. Really trying to point out how independent I was. But at the same time, that goes even deeper, right? Because, you know, you're trying to seek validation for this, but at least for me, this is my experience. I'm trying to seek validation of being independent, of being whole, of being complete, of being able to like, you know, hold my own. And, just because you're in a relationship doesn't mean you can't. But at the same time, I was also getting in my own way of like, properly just integrating and receiving as well, or, or trying to give with, um, the intention of look at me. It's, it's a very interesting thing. How, how independent has become such a common word in the dating pool.

Ivan: 9:52

Yeah. I mean, it, it has become almost like a flex. Right. And, and, and I, you know, I think of the conversation is perhaps to, to present what, um, a male my age, uh, comes across. So imagined, you know, this is for the ladies to think about. If you meet a guy and he comes in and he says, well, I'm independent. I have a job. I can, you know, take care of myself. I have a car, I could do this. You're gonna look at him and you're gonna be like, so it's expected of you, right? Doing it. So it almost becomes a double standard. But then at the same time, we're in the age of equality. So when does equality becomes equal, right? And, and also that's another term too, right? So equality also doesn't mean the same, right? I believe that males and, and females, we have equal opportunities, but we're not the same. And the same goes for even gender to gender. Right? Uh, we're not the same. We're all different. We all have strengths. We'll have weaknesses. And I think that when you trying to come into a relationship is saying, look, here's what I bring and here's who I am as a whole. This whole idea of like, I'm looking for my other half, that is all mentality.

Javier: 11:29

Mm-hmm.

Ivan: 11:29

You have to come in as your whole, how you carry yourself, how you, uh, take care of yourself. Mm-hmm. And say, look, this is what I have. These are my tools. And the other person should come with the same approach. If you're looking to come together, because we're gonna see, we're gonna do an inventory of the tools, we're gonna do an inventory work. We, uh, capabilities, we're gonna do an inventory capacities. You cannot just go blindly, go, well, we're 50 50. If there is an inequality of things, you're gonna have to, uh, leverage each other's strengths to be able to compensate for an overall weakness, right? If you're gonna come together as a, as a unit, you, the, the unit or the chain is only as strong as the weakest link,

Javier: 12:21

right?

Ivan: 12:21

So if you don't understand what you bring, then you can expect that the other person is gonna know. You have to be able to verbalize what, uh, you're good at, what you're not good at, and be open. You know, be honest. I, I say to people, I said, show me who you are and not what you think. I'm going to like, because then I would draw a conclusion on something that is not there. And if you think it on long term, that is not sustainable, you know, you may be able to put up a front for a date or two, but if your intentions are to date, you know, for many years it gets tiring. You can't be coming up with this character every time. At some point this character is gonna, is gonna fail.

Javier: 13:11

Yep.

Ivan: 13:12

So I, I think that it is important on, on, on the definitions and perhaps, you know, the, the last thing of definitions that I've learned to inquire about is the term separated. I've come to see that there's many definitions of being, what's being separated means. So I do ask the question when I hear I. I'm separated and I ask to define what that means to them. I like that. I like that. To see if it matches with my understanding of separation. Right. I'm not going to get into what it is or it isn't. I'm just gonna draw my conclusion. I said, your definition is not the same as mine was nice meeting you, and we just move on. Hmm.

Javier: 14:02

Well that's, that's, that's a good one. Um, wow. No, I, I like that. And again, there's like several words that, that stick out. Now, have you experienced any dates where like people are saying, I'm this, I'm that, or maybe I'm independent and then maybe they don't offer to. Split the check or they don't offer to, have some type of, uh, equality or, or anything like that. Have you any, any experiences?

Ivan: 14:31

Well, I mean, that is, that is a touchy, uh, subject, right? Because, um, I think that men, you know, we are expected to, you know, to, to right pay. It depends on the culture. I mean, uh, uh, you know, other places, it, it is not like that. I think they have gotten past that, you know, for example, in Europe, I think that if you go on a date with a woman, they're, they're not gonna hesitate to offer to pay for, for their half. Um, and, and, and here is, I would say is maybe a, a 70 30 where mm-hmm. You know, we are expected to pick up the tab, you know, for, for one reason or another. And you hear all kinds of explanations, you know, like, oh, well, you know, I, I took the time and, and, and I got ready and, and all that kind of stuff. And, and then to me when I hear something like that is like, well, if, if you're given a value for your time, right? So if I invite you somewhere and, and I don't know for, for drinks, I don't know what is the cost of two drinks. So you're telling me that is, that is your rate per hour or, or half hour, whatever the date is long, so it's irrelevant, right? I say I would never invite someone to, uh, a place that I cannot afford, right? But the thing to understand about men is intention and, and effort. You know, if, if, if you don't offer to pay for yourself. I'm, I'm ready to, to pay. Like I said, I, you know, it's something that it has been expected for a long time, but you do perhaps see where the person is coming from, right? If they said, Hey, you know, here's my card, and I go, no, I, it is on me. Then it is. Um, it is because I, I, I want to not because I'm obligated and, and this is something that I teach my daughter, you know, my daughter is of, of dating age, and I always tell her, I said, if you go on a date, always pay for your share. That way, then there is no wrong expectations from anyone. And now if, if, if the boy wants to pay, then let him pay. But you are letting know that you are capable. Yourself.

Javier: 17:13

Right.

Ivan: 17:13

So, um, but you know, like I said, it, it is, I think it's a, it is a change of, of the culture, I think allows a lot of influence from, from, uh, uh, social media. You hear, you see some ridiculous things that some guys, they even paying for nails and hair and all that kind of stuff. So, um, there's nothing as such as a, a free lunch. So what comes with that price tag? Right. You know, we, we, we, uh, have our own time. Our time is valuable as well. And just because you are inviting it is assumed that you pay. It is conflicting, right? Because let's look at the dating world or dating apps. You see a whole list of requirements. The ones have to meet. One of'em in a lot of the instances is showing tension. So if I invite someone to meet for a coffee, for a drink or for dinner, I'm taking the lead, right? I'm being asked to be masculine, which is also another thing is I know the conflict conflicting thing. You don't know when, when you can and cannot be masculine. What masculine is. Uh, so if I show that intention, then I'm automatically on the hook for a bill. And, and you know, like I said, the bill is, is relevant, but it is intention, right? So you say, Hey, I, I want to pay, it's the same thing. Uh, you know, I, I'm used to, or I'm from the era where I will open the door for, for, for a place or for the, for the car. Uh, and it is a little bit difficult nowadays because now cars you don't even have to do, you know, do anything. But if I open the door for you and, and I close the door in my car, what would be the expected part of the other person to do perhaps the expected thing to do is for the person to reach over and perhaps open the door for you. So it is equal, right? It's equal amount of effort, right? We ask for equality, right? So the intentions and the actions have to match,

Javier: 19:34

right?

Ivan: 19:35

Not be lopsided, just because one is of a particular gender,

Javier: 19:39

right? So

Ivan: 19:42

I pay attention to those things. Uh, it has nothing to do with being, uh, machista or, or being, uh, patriarchy. But if I'm, I. Start a restaurant and you know, I'm pulling the chair for you. I'm pulling the, the chair so you can sit, uh, perhaps the next step or maybe that's the etiquette that people needs to learn when it comes to these, uh, expectations of between genders, right? Because like I said, I, I, when I read these profiles, there's a whole lot of expectations just for the fact that I'm a male. So then where are the expectations for a female, right? In my case, right? You ask me if I do all of that at a restaurant, perhaps when the food comes in or appetizer is you are going to serve my plate. Some people can say like, whoa, you know, well, we're not servants anymore. Well, so then where do you get the idea of us having to open the door, pick you up, or do all these kind of things? It comes from the old mentality. Because if you move to the, to the present, then everyone is independent. Everyone is capable. So then you should be able to open up your own door. Perhaps you should be able to get yourself to the place, sit yourself, take care of your coat and everything else.

Javier: 21:10

Right.

Ivan: 21:10

If something dangerous happen, well, you should be able to fight the same way that I can fight. Right? So, so where are the boundaries of, of equality, right? Of expectation. So, uh, I, I, you see it, it is, it's ridiculous, right? Is it is funny.

Javier: 21:29

Let me ask you, do you enjoy, uh, being, you know, opening the door? Of course.

Ivan: 21:35

Yeah, of course. Because it, it doesn't come from a place of obligation. Mm-hmm. Right? Right. It is, uh, it is in nature, you know, to do these kind of things, you know? You see it? I don't know. In Discovery channel, you know, you see the male birds putting all this display of Yeah. Gallon trees and, you know, and, and ability to be able to meet with another bird. But when you look at the female birds, she's like, monotone color, you know, and you see this flamboyant, you know, male doing this whole thing just so they could get, so that's our equivalent, right? Those are the things that, and I think that it feels good. It is, it is almost like a dance.

Javier: 22:26

Mm-hmm.

Ivan: 22:27

You know, it is like, you do this, you do that. So imagine if you're gonna go dancing and you know, and because there is no expectations to to, to woman. They just, you have this rigid person there that is not moving at the rhythm. Right. If you have, if you have chemistry, if you have a connection, there's a rhythm. You vibrate at the same frequency and all the steps. Go with each other. So if, if I'm Gallant or if I'm, you know, uh, being attentive and I have initiative, the least that you can expect is the same back. Right. But people are too concerned with, uh, fitting into a stereotype or to a box or what social media is saying that they're not focusing on really getting to know the other person or even getting to know themselves. Like we said earlier, they don't know what they have to offer.

Javier: 23:25

um, so for our listeners, uh, if you haven't picked up on it, so I'd love to ask these questions specifically too, because for me, I'm a gay man and Yvonne's straight. So it's like sharing the perspective is very different'cause uh, he's showing up in a. In this process, in this journey with, looking for a female, and for me it's looking for a male. So it does kind of certain things with equality or, independence, stuff like that shifts. It shows up a little differently when it's two males. Right. Different expectations, I'm saying. Right, right. Or like two females, um, but you bring up intention a lot, right? Do you feel like most men date with true intention or do they date based on attraction first and figure it out later?

Ivan: 24:14

Uh, that's a, that's a good question. And I mean, I'm not. Dating men. So it would be hard for me to say that, uh, if they come in with intentions or not. But I do hear the stories from people that I connect with.

Javier: 24:31

Mm-hmm.

Ivan: 24:32

Or sometimes I feel that, um, I have to, I mend the actions of others so I can get an idea of perhaps intention. Uh, I think that, uh, there's a big percentage of perhaps guys that their intention is just to, I don't know, ha spend, have a good time with someone, but I think that those that are seriously looking, they are with all intentions.

Javier: 25:11

Okay. Yeah. I mean,

Ivan: 25:12

a hundred percent. And, and that's kind of the, the thing that, um. I would say for the vast majority of, of of guys, it, it takes a while to, let's say, commit. But when they commit, they commit, you know, and, and you see it in, in, in their behaviors. You know, the, um, you know, they're, they're fans of, you know, one baseball team, one football team. Right. Good or bad. They're there. They're not jumping ship, you know? Right. You see the guys that have, you know, a, you know, loyalty to this one team that has not won a championship in 50 years. That's true though. And you see'em buying the jerseys and this year is gonna be the year. They always have that enthusiasm and that hope so they're committed for life. You know? Do you see the guy that's committed to, you know, maybe to that college, you know, sweatshirt mm-hmm. That he should have been thrown away and they still believe that it still fits them So I think that that's when it comes with the, with the intention. And I think that actions, uh, are going to speak louder than words. Right. You could, you know, and, and again, this part perhaps is for, for, for the ladies to, to, to pay attention. Is that intention, what we're talking about? Uh, put down the walls, you know, if a guy I is intentionally, you know, asking you out, right? Or, or asking you questions. So perhaps they can ask you out, answer the questions. You know, sometimes, like some of these profiles, like I said, it is just, you know, don't ask me how my day is or how my weekend. Those are simple phrases to start a conversation. I cannot start a conversation with someone that I don't know. I don't know what you're into in the weekends. Mm-hmm. So I gotta ask you, Hey, how was your weekend? Did you do anything fun? Right. And then let you explain to me what fun is for you so I can gather the information. Right. And understand I cannot put everything on a, uh, on a profile or expect me to read the whole, this whole profile and understand who you are or establish a conversation about something that is going to interest you, because I don't know what interests you.

Javier: 27:34

Right.

Ivan: 27:35

And I think that those people, I would say clutter the dating pool because they come in abrasive, you know? Right. And they don't leave room for someone to be intentional.

Javier: 27:47

Right, right. No, I find that too, like on the other side of that, and you know, as far as gay dating, I. A lot of the apps are hookup apps. There's apps for men where it's just like, eh, you're not, if you're, if you're looking to date seriously, that's not where you go.

Ivan: 28:03

Well, I mean, I,

Javier: 28:04

I

Ivan: 28:04

think that, um, in the end, these, um, method of meeting people is a very lucrative business. Mm-hmm. So they're intentionally created that way. Right. Uh, I think that the algorithms for all of these apps, uh, do a lot of, uh, manipulation of. Who gets to see who or, or who matches with who.

Javier: 28:34

Mm. And

Ivan: 28:35

uh, but I see it as the lottery, right?

Javier: 28:41

Mm-hmm.

Ivan: 28:43

You get the person that goes and plays$1, well, I think it's$2 nowadays, and they win the jackpot, right? And you get the people that go and spend hundreds of dollars in the lottery every week and they don't win. So I think that whether you pay or you don't pay on the apps, I think that the process of meeting someone is the same. The app is not going to to vet that for you. Right?

Javier: 29:15

Oh, yeah. You got a point there. So, speaking of apps, if dating apps allowed you to create three custom filters to find your ideal match, what would they be for you?

Ivan: 29:30

Uh, wow. Uh, I, I think that, um, I, I don't see it so much as a filter. I mean, I think that some of'em have a million filters, right? Right. And people, uh, ignore all of'em, or they pick too many. Uh, and that's true. And maybe the filters can play against you, right. Because you gotta think about the state of mind that you were when you created that profile.

Javier: 29:58

Right. It can be limiting,

Ivan: 29:59

right. So you may be missing, or, or, or on, on a potential match. But the one thing that I would like these apps to have, and I'm sure that they may not be interested on, is to have people complete a personality, test.

Javier: 30:21

Oh, that would be cool. Almost like I. There's a lot out there, um, like love languages

Ivan: 30:27

yeah. I mean, like, I think that, you know, even these happen, you know, like corporations, you know, make employees. Right. You know, take personality assessments. Right. Because depending on the job, you have to work in a team, right? You're not dating the people, but you spend significant amount of time with these people and you have to be compatible. Yeah. And I think that compatibility is an, an important part of the relationship. Right. You know, we have a connection, chemistry, and compatibility.

Javier: 30:59

Mm-hmm.

Ivan: 31:00

The connection and the chemistry, it happens a whole lot more often than compatibility.

Javier: 31:07

Can you expand on what connection and chemistry mean to you?

Ivan: 31:12

Sure. I mean, I think that, you know, the connection, you know, in the topic of, of apps. You can get a sense of, even with the first messages, right? Um, how the interaction is, how the response is. Right. But I've, I, I say that just having a connection through text messages, it, it is a little bit superficial because you have time to think, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. When you get a message, you know, I got time to process the comments or the question, or what the other person said, and maybe they say something that, I don't know, I don't understand. I got time to Google it. Gotcha. So when you see that interest, right, because it goes back to intention and interest. You know, there's people that perhaps love to collect likes or matches or whatever it is, and they never communicate. They never talk, they never said anything. You send them a, Hey, how are you? Nice connecting with you, and then they'll respond to you a week later, hi. Right. What kind of connection you're gonna create with someone that responds every seven days with, you know, a two letter work, right? Right. So that right there, there's no connection, but if you in, you know, you can establish that back and forth. I think that it's important to, to test the connection in a real scenario. And that could be on a phone call, that could be on a video call, or actually go meet the person because having a conversation is real time. I could make a comment, I can, um, react a certain way and that will come across in a conference call. I mean, in a, in a, in a phone call or in a video call. And nothing is better than in actual, real life you could see. Mm-hmm. How the person moves, reacts, how they roll their eyes, if they do, or they know how engaged they are when, when you're talking to them. Right. So to me that is the connection and that is what is going to have or, or create that, uh, ability of exchanging between the two. From the very beginning, you meet someone and you can talk, you, you meet this person that they ask you a question and when you're gonna go answer there, they interrupt you. Then you know the communication is not gonna be there.

Javier: 33:40

Right?

Ivan: 33:40

Right. If the person is not listening to what you're saying and they're not, uh, trying to understand what you're saying, then the connection, it starts to deteriorate or just, it's just not gonna be there. Right. Uh, and then chemistry, chemistry comes in many ways. I mean, I think that, uh, it can come, um, from, uh. How someone, uh, behaves, you know, whether or not they're engaging, you know, they're looking at you, their body posture, you know, there's a lot of truth in all the things that they said. If someone is with their arms crossed or, or they're, you know, exposed. What is considered vulnerable areas of their bodies is, is saying that they're welcoming you. And, uh, and touch, you know, is very important. You could have, you know, a conversation, you have a laugh, and the person reaches out and they touch, you know, your arm or, or your back. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, those are things that it is, uh, communicating that there's chemistry. Right, right. Because you're not rejecting the, either the proximity or, or the physical contact of someone. When you don't like someone and you don't see that chemistry, you could see it. As soon as the person walks in the room, you're like, Hmm, nah. And, and the whole vibe changes. Even the connection changes. You could have been very forward when you were, uh, text messaging or even on a phone call when you see that person for the first time and it's not what you're expected or what you wanted, you kind of take a step back. But if it's, you know, if it is something that you like, that is only gonna grow, you know, from there, that chemistry, right? And, you know, and I think that one thing escalates to the, you know, to the next, you know, if you, right, if you accept that proximity or perhaps that physical contact ads are that, you know, you're gonna kiss the person and you're gonna discover, I think that the more, um, physical you, you become, the more you're going to, uh, learn about the person and about yourself, how you feel when you're with them,

Javier: 35:51

right? Like, I always, explain chemistry also, it was like the five senses, right? Like there's different ways to approach chemistry, but sometimes you'll be kissing somebody and it just doesn't feel right or it doesn't taste right, and then you, you try to go as far as like sleeping with them and then you're like, okay, I'm really not into it. That's all chemistry too. It's like the way somebody tastes, the way somebody smells, the sounds they make

Ivan: 36:14

yeah, I mean the interaction, I think that, right, it's important. And I think that, uh, again, it is on what you're looking for. Um, I think that if you're looking for a long-term relationship, I think that you want to be. Uh, as fulfilled as you can be with that person in all these different aspects. Right. Right. Because, um, I don't wanna say that there's no going back, but you don't wanna put in a significant amount of effort for something that you perhaps know that you can't, uh, live with or compromise. Right. You know, or, or, or, or say, well, I'm, I'm willing to forego this because everything else is that great, but there's certain things that it just need to flow naturally. And I think that chemistry, uh, is one of those, you know, the, the chemistry to me is a non-negotiable. I think that is either there or it isn't. Mm-hmm. You know, you can't, you can stroke that fire. I mean, I think that the fire that it, it gets started, it starts from those sparks. Right. Right. And those sparks come from that, uh, initial connection from that. Uh, chemistry between the, between the two of them. Right. And, and, uh, and then you care for that fire afterwards. Mm-hmm. And, um, and the things that longer term is the compatibility. You know, you cannot expect everything to be perfect. There's gotta be some things that, uh, you have to be willing to, to work together. Right. And compromise, you know, I think that people that don't have the understanding that you will need to do a lot of compromise in a relationship, then they just don't get it because it's, it's not gonna be your way. Right. And if it's your way, then you have someone that either they just don't care or you cannot expect anything from them because everyone is gonna want something.

Javier: 38:12

Mm-hmm.

Ivan: 38:13

And, and, um, and, and, and in any scenario, you know, in, in a negotiation, you know, you cannot go. The mindset that everything is just gonna go your way.

Javier: 38:24

Right.

Ivan: 38:24

And you gotta understand that the other person is there to win too. And uh, and one thing that I've learned is that it is, it's important to go with a, uh, a mindset of winning. But I think you also need to understand how much are you willing to lose to get there.

Javier: 38:43

Right? I mean, it's not, it's it's not easy. Like relationships are are work. Yeah. They're work. Um, and you know, through that work you do grow. Um, but yeah, no, I definitely resonate with what you're saying.

Ivan: 38:58

Yeah. It's, um, it is a lot to, to consider and yeah. And, uh, and I think that it gets perhaps a little bit more, uh, involved I would say, when, when you get older. I, I don't remember having any of these thoughts when I was younger, you know? Right. I was in my twenties it, which is like, I like her and I'm going after, and that's it. When, and then you pay the consequences.

Javier: 39:21

When it comes to compatibility, are there things that you've also learned like are like nos for you? Like, like, you know, I can be, um, I can compromise and stuff like that, but are there, like, for example, for me, um, I've been in relationships with people long enough to like, I just, I can't do road rage anymore, like to be in a car with somebody who has road rage. Like there's just n there's just never p I'm, that's just not me. Um, and there's never peace in that. Or, or, or maybe somebody who's just like very moody. Like, it just, it's very, there's not a com a lot of room for me to be compatible with that. Yeah. Um, you know, again, I mean, yeah. The road rage is a hard no for me. But Is there anything for you that, that you feel like is, is a no?

Ivan: 40:15

Yeah. Well, I mean, so I. I come to understand things that are important in compatibility. Right. And I think that having common goals is very important. Mm-hmm. And, and why do I say that? Is because there is, in the relationship, there is a level of Romans, which is important and is great, but it cannot be all of it, right? You hear a lot, oh, opposites attract. That doesn't work in a relationship that only works in electronics, but, you know, batteries, it takes, yeah, it takes a lot to, uh, keep yourself motivated. Takes a lot of effort to fight your own demons, to, to, to be someone that, uh, somebody else is gonna want. And you be someone that you can offer. So now imagine trying to. Be with someone that wants to go in a complete opposite direction as the direction that you want to go. Right? You, you don't go anywhere, right? You spend, go apart all your energy trying to convince someone that does not want to be where you want to be, which kind of relates to the whole independent, right?

Javier: 41:38

Mm-hmm.

Ivan: 41:39

You met someone from the very beginning that you knew that were independent, or you met someone from the very beginning that you understand that is a complete opposite of you. They don't wanna be like you, they don't wanna do the things that you do. They don't react the way that you react, that, that you react. So you are always gonna have to overcome that, right? And you get tiring over time,

Javier: 42:03

right?

Ivan: 42:04

So, um, I, I pay attention and, and I, yeah, I, I pay, uh, attention to those behaviors as you, as you described. I, I value. Uh, by peace a lot, right? I'm not looking to be with someone, uh, that is, uh, conflictive someone that is not happy on their own. I'm not responsible for anyone's happiness.

Javier: 42:33

I'm also,

Ivan: 42:34

I'm not responsible to mend someone else's insecurities. And, um, and those are things that perhaps are the, uh, incompatible things. Mm-hmm. You know, if someone is overly jealous and and insecure, uh, because of their previous experiences, I had nothing to do with that.

Javier: 42:59

Right.

Ivan: 42:59

And if you have not worked that out yourself to come complete to a new relationship, I fully understand that there's nothing that I can do to fill that void. And, and the same goes for me. I can be policing someone 24 7 for them not to do something. Because when someone wants to do something, they will do it. And that goes to, you know, with the connection, if someone wants to, um, call you or message you or be there for you, they will, people make time for what? They wanna make time.

Javier: 43:40

Mm-hmm.

Ivan: 43:41

So you could see that all throughout the process. Like I said, hey, you connect, you match with someone and you say, Hey, how are you? And this person responds to you a week later with a hi. Then the person shows you their intentions, you know, and, and, and their, level of, of, of wanting to be with you. You know, they could come, oh, I was so busy. Like, listen, you're not running the country. You know, so, um, you know, you have time to post you. Your, your Starbucks, you know, order in, in Instagram, but you couldn't send me a hello. You know, so, um

Javier: 44:15

Right.

Ivan: 44:16

I think that those, those are the, um, uh, perhaps my compatibility lookouts. Okay. You know, that, you know, from, from people.

Javier: 44:24

I like that lookouts. Um, you brought up earlier how, when you were younger, you would, you, you, you didn't pay attention to chemistry, uh, I'm sorry, connection, chemistry and compatibility, the three C's. Um, so I know that you were married. Yes. Um, how long has it been since you, it is been five years now. Five years. Okay. So, looking back at yourself five years, um, ago, how have your own standards or approach to, to dating changed since then?

Ivan: 44:57

Well, I mean, uh, you know, one thing that I, I learned and, and something that I. Pay attention to today as I date people that are equal to me is how long have they been divorced? Hmm. Right? Because relationships end way before you actually get to the point of getting divorced. Right. And that is one thing, but for one reason or another, you're still linked to to, to that and, and you need some time to process and let's say heal that. Right. You know, depending on the length of time that you are married, you're gonna have to relearn to live on your own, to understand what do I like, how do I behave by myself? You know, if you're married, I don't know, for 12, 15 years, you know, you were making decisions. With someone else

Javier: 45:58

mm-hmm.

Ivan: 45:59

Is way different. Making a decision, uh, on your own, you know? Right. When you don't have to ask, you're not hearing an opinion, good or bad, or, you know, you do whatever you want. And that can be overwhelming. Right. Because it is freedom. And, and, and that freedom can also blind you on your decision making. You think you're ready to go and, you know, and you start meeting people and dating people, and then you realize that you are still carrying a lot of baggage. Mm-hmm. Or, uh, you don't see the red flags from the other person because you're going too fast. Right. You know, you're just like, you know, this caged animal that he just was let go and, and you're just like taking everything as much as you can, and then you don't pay attention to those non-negotiables, you know, those incompatible. Trades. So five years from, from then until now, I'm more aware, you know, I'm more relaxed and I'm not just taken by the shiny object.

Javier: 47:10

Right. You know,

Ivan: 47:11

now I try to understand, is that real goal or fool's goal? You know, not everything that shine is gold, right? So, and just like using the gold analogy, if you want gold, you gotta dig, you gotta get dirty, you gotta put the time. And not every pan is gonna give you gold. And I think that that's the, the dating scene is right. You have this prospect of land that you're gonna go and look for gold.

Javier: 47:41

I, I love that. I love everything that you just said. I, I re relate to it so much. Um, you know, I was in an 11 year relationship and right after I got outta that relationship, I was very proud of myself. I felt like I was very much ready to be in the right relationship, right? Um, the compatible relationship. And four months later when I put myself out there to date, ended up getting into a relationship and I completely thought I was ready. I completely thought I knew what it was to be in a relationship and what it was to hold a relationship and to put work into a relationship. But what I learned very quickly is that I was also trying to show up as that version of myself in this, right. And, I learned that one, when you do end up in a relationship with a relationship with someone else, or even just dating, you kind of meet a different version of yourself based off of them. when they react to something, how do you react or how does that make you feel? What comes up? You know, everybody's got their own, their own thing and their own way of approaching life. And so for me, I learned very quickly, I happened to go into this like, profound, profound relationship and I realized I wasn't ready for it. I was not ready for it. There was a lot of me getting in my own way. A lot of, and I say that a lot of me getting in my own way, because I was also presented with a version of myself that I didn't recognize. There was a lot of, um, different insecurities or things that came up being with this person that. Didn't come up with the other person. Right. So after, you know, even through the 11 years. And so, um, after that relationship ended, I didn't have an appetite to date because I realized that I didn't really know, um, what was what I needed. Right. I knew what I desired. Mm-hmm. But those are two different things. I remember one of the things he told me, um, was, No, you're good for me, but you're also good for everyone. Like, that's how I am as a person. And I realized like, but I haven't been putting that effort into myself. So for the next, months, I did what I called, I stood still, and I, I had to really get to know myself and, and like you said, heal and, even as I, as I began dating, like you said, you get to this point where you learn more about yourself, um, but you get to this point where you realize like, there's no rush. Like relationships are a lot bigger than what most people, kind of see them as. Right. It's, it's, it's not necessarily a have to do, it's a get to do because of the amount of effort that you have to put in there. Um, and so, I'm still in the process of getting to know myself even through this dating process, but I kind of had to just be like, like, there's no way I can, I can do that again, because I thought I knew who I was and then I was presented with a whole different version of myself. And then with that, that triggered a lot of things that I realized I needed to heal within myself so I wasn't taking, you know, the things that didn't work. In a previous relationship into, into the next one?

Ivan: 51:05

Yeah. I mean, I, I, I think that what makes it difficult in, in any, I would say, relationship regardless of, of gender is the idealization of what a good relationship is. Uh, and, and let's take marriage for example, right? We have all been sold this idea that you married someone until you die.

Javier: 51:28

Mm-hmm.

Ivan: 51:30

And there is no explanation for what to expect. And I think that is very, um, unrealistic to expect that two people are not going to change over time. That their priorities aren't going to change, that their wants aren't going to change. That their likes aren't going to change, and that perhaps the person that it may be needed to walk through a path. It may not be the same person that you thought 10 years ago. Yeah. I mean, five years ago.

Javier: 52:20

Right?

Ivan: 52:21

So people like to hold on to, well, well we've been married for 10 years, and, you know, and, and they think that, like, having a thought of like, I don't feel the same way about this person or about this relationship and, and, and want to put love into one category. Love comes in many different ways. The love you have for your children is completely different from the love that you have for your parents.

Javier: 52:54

Mm,

Ivan: 52:55

is the love that you have for your pet or your shoes not for your partner, right? At a different age in your life, you thought that you love this particular clothing style, you got older and you now you look back and you think it was ridiculous, right? So I think that, um, decisions are made based on the information and at the time that you take'em. So you are young, you meet someone and you think that this is the person, you make this big commitment, you make this huge decision mostly because is to meet somebody else's expectations. Your parents, society, religion, what a culture, whatever it is that is heavily influencing you to take that huge of a leap. So. You come out of these long-term relationships, either with a lot of learnings or with a lot of baggage or, or traumas or whatever it is. And at least for me, I, I come to understand that, um, what is important, right? Is it the length of the relationship or the quality of it, or how good the relationship was,

Javier: 54:18

right?

Ivan: 54:19

Because I mean, I'll tell you, you asked me today, I'll probably value a whole lot more, a shorter relationship. That is great. The one that is long and miserable and, and then perhaps for today too, is what is considered a long-term relationship anymore? What is the definition of a long-term relationship anymore?

Javier: 54:42

Right.

Ivan: 54:43

You know, so I think that whatever the relationship is, I. If it's good, then enjoy it. Live it for its potential because one or the other, if not both are going to change, or life sometime gets on the way and you have to end it. And not every breakup is a heartbreak. I think that we ourselves break our own hearts by creating these huge expectations of something that is not there. I I, I think that I explained this one time, you know, in my mind is that you meet someone and, and if you were to plot how you feel about someone in a chart, this person, right, it's on the x axis and you are on the Y axis, and at zero time you already have this person pegged. A hundred percent. And as time goes by, because you're already at the max, what happens when you reach the max? The only possible thing to happen is to start to go down. And as time goes by, you start seeing that line to go down. Now you get worried because you're like, what happened? We're not where we used to be. And then now every effort that you put in is trying to get that relationship to that point and is not gonna stay there. You may have a spike and you come back down and it's all relevant to time and to, uh, what is occurring between the two. You cannot control the other person. Right? So the outcome of that data point, it has to do with the two of you. It's not just one person. So sometimes we have to think about it the other way. We start from zero, and as time goes by, we start to build

Javier: 56:50

right

Ivan: 56:50

in that, into that and, and gain the most that you can. And then you could clearly see it, you know, if it's one year, two year, and then you could see how far you got. And, and sometimes that's all there is.

Javier: 57:02

Right? See, this, this is why I love having these conversations with you though, because you have such a expansive, um, outlook on, on relationships and dating and, and you know, it, it just blows my mind how much information you keep coming out with that. I'm like, yeah, we have to talk about this. Um, but yeah, that's, that's, there's a lot of truth in that and I think that that's a huge, huge thing. It's, it's about quality over quantity. Yeah. Um, that's really where I think that fulfillment lies. Love has its levels, right? Sometimes you feel in love, sometimes you don't. Uh, but when you lose respect, that's a whole different thing.

Ivan: 57:45

Yeah. I mean, I think that there's a huge focus on love, right? And people overlook the, the reality, right? Right. Real life, uh, and, and love is, is just one component. And for the most part is, is is something that you feel because there's no guarantee that the other person is gonna love you. Mm-hmm. So you could go into relationship and fall in love with the other person, and that is okay. That is your feeling. You're entitled your, it is your right to fall in love. But you also have to understand that just because you fall in love doesn't mean that the other person has to fall in love with you. Right? They can still care for you deeply, but. Everyone is different in how they love and how they fall in love or what they consider love.

Javier: 58:38

Yeah. That's, that's good. That's really good. If there was anything that you maybe could thank what, um, what do men secretly wish women understood about them when, when it comes to dating and relationships?

Ivan: 58:58

Uh, I mean, I guess, you know, since I'm representing, um, no, I mean, I think that, or for you, for you like, no, I, I mean, I think in general, and I, and I think we kind of touched about this, uh, earlier, when a guy is interested, he's gonna let you know his actions are going to, uh, dictate and, and they're gonna show you right, what his intentions are. But I think what women need to understand is that it's not that we don't care, like your accomplishments and, and, and all that kind of stuff. We understand that it's important and we, and we, we sympathize. Mm-hmm. But I think that many in the end, they want to be respected and they want to be, uh, admired and, uh, and they want, uh, affection. Because those are three things that for the most part, uh, you cannot give yourself, right? Because, uh, respect is earned. You cannot go buy respect. You know, you earn respect,

Javier: 1:00:15

right?

Ivan: 1:00:15

You could fall in love with many people, but you respect a few. And when you respect someone, you love them, and you don't question the love that you feel for someone that you respect. When you admire someone is because you're no longer looking at them with your eyes. You're looking at them from your heart.

Javier: 1:00:38

Mm-hmm.

Ivan: 1:00:39

So that is what, uh, men aspire to get. We do that since we're children. We start with our parents, right? When we go, Hey, look, daddy, no hands, right? Yeah. We wanna be admired. Right? Look, we're, we're doing something, we're accomplishing something. It may not mean anything to you, but understand that it means something for us. You know, you, you hear the joke, uh, about the dating the guy with the fish in the application and you said, yes, I'm a person. I would never put a picture with a fish. But, but what that guy is saying is like, Hey look, I did this and you don't have to like it. He's not asking you to go fishing, but he's sharing something that he perhaps he likes and is an accomplishment. It's not easy to fish. Trust me. I try. I've taken my son and my kids to, to go fishing and we never catch anything. And, uh, so if, if, if they are accomplishing something big or small, right? It might be insignificant to you being a fish and you may admire the guy that is sitting, you know, in the hood of a Lamborghini. But accomplishment, accomplishments come in different shapes, sizes or different meanings to people. And that person just wants to be admired. They're sharing that with you. And, and the affection is, is just trivial. I mean, you know, we are, uh, for the most part in a stressful situations all the time. We're constantly guarded. It's very difficult for us to put our armor down that the last thing you wanna do is get home and still have that shield and sword on your hand, because now you gotta fight your partner. You want someone that you can put your, your weapons down and lay your head and, and be care for in that way, in a loving and affectionate way. Everything else we talk about, the guy will pay or will find a way to, you know, to, to do things. They say that, you know, a man will build that castle for the woman that they want to be with.

Javier: 1:02:59

Right. I, I mean, listen guys, I think that I chose an amazing person to represent. I'm no expert by any means to represent me. I'm still dating yourself because I'm like, yeah, wow. I love everything I just heard. So from your own experience, like looking back at everything that you've learned about dating or even just relationship, what's relationships? What's the biggest lesson you tell your younger self or any man out there trying to navigate love right now?

Ivan: 1:03:32

I, I said, uh, number one thing, and I think it goes for both male and female, is, uh, learn yourself. Get to know yourself.'cause if, if you don't know yourself, then you don't know what to offer, what you bring to the table. And I. If you see what you bring to the table and you understand that, then you will be able to see what you need in that table. So then you can expect that from somebody else, right? Where you can, like I said, do that, you know, assessment we talked about earlier. Yeah, here are my tools, here are your tools. All right, we got two hammers. Well, we don't need two. You know, we pick one and what do we need? Oh, we don't have a screwdriver. Well, we'll have to go get one. So, uh, I think that is very important to, to get to know who you are and, and, and that will help you, uh, see the other person for who they are,

Javier: 1:04:34

right? Because

Ivan: 1:04:35

you gotta start with yourself. You gotta love yourself. You gotta be happy for yourself. Uh, and I think you have to get to know yourself. Ain't that the truth? If you don't start there, you don't have a solid, you know, foundation to, to start demanding or exploring. You know, I think a lot of people just go by what they hear and. Uh, and their friends and what somebody else says, be yourself. And, and, and being yourself is getting to know yourself.

Javier: 1:05:03

That's powerful. I mean, it's so, it's so simple, right? And we hear like, if you can't love yourself, you can't love anybody else. But it's the truth. Like it's, it's the damn truth. Like you can't, you can't expect people to fill that void for you or to, to, wanna give 5% and have them give 95% to you. Yeah. Right. Like, you have to really learn your, learn what it is again, that, that you need, but also learn how to, how to make yourself happy.'cause like you said, we're, we're not responsible for anybody's happiness. And that's, that's so powerful. And there's so much truth in that.

Ivan: 1:05:39

Yeah. I mean, if you don't know how to make yourself happy, how do you expect somebody else to know how to make you happy? Right? So then you're gonna build resentment to that other person because, well, you're not making me happy.

Javier: 1:05:50

Right. Listen, y'all listen. No, that's so good. Wow. All right. So before we close out, is there anything else you wanna say to, to those that are listening right now?

Ivan: 1:06:05

I, I just say, you know, give yourself the opportunity. Don't, don't shut yourself down. Let someone else do that for you. And you learn, you learn

Javier: 1:06:15

from the experiences. I couldn't agree more. All right. Didn't I tell you I was super excited for this conversation, so, um, but this is, this is, every time I get to talk to this guy, it's like, again, he expands my way of thinking. So thank you so much for, for coming on, um, the podcast and for, you know, sharing this conversation with everyone else. It's very insightful and expansive. Um, we appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. No, thank you for

Ivan: 1:06:43

having me. And hopefully this can help you know, someone. See things in a different way. Like I said, I'm not an expert. I'm, I'm also a client of the dating world. But, uh, I mean, I think it's just my perspectives and right. Sometimes we like to hear what somebody else has to say,

Javier: 1:07:00

right? I think these raw conversations are, they're real, right? It's like, I'm not, I can go to an expert, but you know, that's, they're gonna tell me their ways, their formula, right? Of course. And that's great, but like, that's not, that one formula doesn't work on everybody. No, definitely not. So it's, it's these real raw conversations that are effective. So with that being said, remember that love isn't something we chase. It's something we're built for. Thank you guys. We'll see you later. Thank you. Oh, that was so good. I didn't even have to go through like half of the questions