Is That What Love Looks Like? – Redefining Love with Candice Moore

There are people who inspire change—and then there are people who change the way we see ourselves. In this deeply moving episode of Built For Love, Javier Ortega sits down with visionary speaker, author, and healing catalyst Candice Moore. From surviving foster care and addiction to becoming a global leader in emotional fitness and transformation, Candice shares her profound journey of resilience and radical self-love.

Together, they explore themes of emotional homelessness, core beliefs, addiction beyond substances, and what it truly means to live from your gut—not your wounds. Candice unpacks how to reclaim your worth, make your body sacred again, and practice self-forgiveness in a world that rarely teaches it.

Whether you’ve battled addiction, people-pleasing, shame, or simply the question of whether you’re lovable as you are—this conversation will meet you where you are and lovingly challenge you to rise.

Because love isn’t supposed to hurt—love renews.

Connect with Candice Moore:

Website: www.moore-grace.com

Workbook: Let’s Unpack Core Beliefs

Transcript

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There are people who change lives, and then there are people who change the way we see life itself. My guest today is the latter. I. Welcome back to Built For Love. I'm your host, Javier Ortega. With me today is Candace Moore, who is the visionary behind more grace, a transformative leader, a globally recognized speaker, and an author whose work has redefined healing, empowerment, and the way we understand love. Her journey is a masterclass in resilience from foster care to homelessness, from battling addiction to becoming a beacon of light. For those seeking transformation. Candace has built a legacy that doesn't just inspire. It ignites with over 20 years of experience. She creates spaces where healing isn't just encouraged, but inevitable. Her expertise in emotional fitness, core beliefs and self-worth has led her to stages worldwide. Where she challenges the narratives we tell ourselves and invites us into radical self-acceptance. But before we dive in, I wanna take a small moment to speak on how an interview I heard with Candace over a decade ago has stayed with me when I was a student in beauty school at Palm Mitchell School of San Antonio in 2011, we used to have to listen to these master interviews for home play. The Dean of Palm Mitchell schools win. Clay Bog would do these for the future professionals, and his goal was to bring beauty industry experts and experts about life itself to create a wellness journey for the students. This interview he did with Candace was by far, uh, for me personally, the most impactful so much that I still have about eight to 10 of those CDs. so I can go on and on and on about how impactful it was. But I don't have to because today we'll be unpacking her story, her mission, and that powerful question that has challenged so many, including myself, to rethink love. Candace, welcome to Built For Love. Yeah. Thanks for the invite. Yeah, I'm super excited. So your story is one of transformation and power. Can you tell us about your story and how it brought you to the defining moment when you realized you were meant for more? Sure. So everything is a journey, um, a process of unpacking, of unfoldment, and hopefully transformation. Right? Right. Depends on how receptive we are to the lessons that are being presented. My background is one of extreme trauma, and as a result of that, it encompassed being on the streets as a child, non-consensual, uh, relationships when I was, uh, under the roof of the person who raised me and just a lot of violence and then ladder, um, drug and alcoholism. So, you know, I was not set up for success, right? The journey itself was absolutely necessary in me becoming who I am, right? Because at the end of the day, one of my favorite speakers is Lisa Nichols, and I remember her talking about standing and the importance of what that looked like. And so for me, I've learned that I can't sit and stand at the same time. And so I chose to stand. I can either, I. Sit in a corner and cry about all the things that have happened in my life and close my heart off and be, uh, become emotionally inaccessible. Or I can do the work, which is what I've chosen to do for over 20 years, and develop some methodologies that allow others who have trauma to repurpose it, to identify it, begin to dismantle it and repurpose it. Hmm. I love that. Is, was there, um, a particular, uh, maybe rock bottom moment that, that really shifted you into, um, uh, I guess the awareness of, of doing the, the work for yourself? No, I, I mean, there was so many, right? Because life is a series of surrenders and, you know, I could say, well, there was this moment and it was pivotal to, but there were many moments and all of them took me further away from myself. I was disconnected from my spirit. And, um, you know, I remember being a teenager on the streets of Hollywood and those experiences, um, which I later incorporated into a series on homelessness, emotional, mental, spiritual, physical homelessness, and what that looks like when you are seeking emotional shelter. Who we become as individuals, not understanding the unconscious drive that, that create situations where we're really just trying to be safe. So there were many bottoms, there were many bottoms. And, um, you know, certainly when I, I stopped engaging in active addiction, that was one of the turning points because I was introduced to, um, spiritual processes that allowed me to open the door into, um, an action-based program, right? And so what I've learned is. I wanna live from my gut. And the longest journey is that from our head to our gut, our head is where the chatter lives and where doubt lives. And we're second guessing and we're replaying the path, but our gut is where our truth resides. And so from my head, through my heart to my gut, and doing the work to clean that space out so that I can comfortably reside there, so that I can grow there, because that is foundational. Our gut is foundational. So it must be rock solid. We cannot have rotted floorboards, right? And expect to have a life that is youthfully whole. We will always find ourselves in some type of catastrophe. Self-induced, right? Wow. You know, a lot of people carry deep rooted beliefs about themselves that aren't even their own. How do you begin unpacking. Those core beliefs and, and what, what is the hardest one to unlearn? Yeah. So what was the hardest one to unlearn? That I was broken. Mm-hmm. That was a big one, that I was broken because so many things happen from a very young age. And what happens if you are not in an environment where that is addressed, examined, and healed, is you start piling on a lot of fractured beliefs and then living from that space. So when I began doing work, you know, and it was when everything was out of my system and I began to sat with myself. So as a child, I would always write stream of consciousness and you know, there's a workbook that a lot of people are familiar with. I think it was really popular in the nineties, called The Artist's Way. Uh, by Julia Cameron, and it's an amazing workbook, 12 weeks and, and you have all these tasks, but one of the things that she asks is that you write three pages first thing in the morning before you pull, look up your phone, before you look at the news, read a newspaper, call anyone. And so what I found, um, in that, that habit is that I was able to clear the mental clutter so that I could get down to sitting with myself and exploring my spiritual home. Um, and so in looking at that, the belief that I was broken as a result of the things that I had experienced as a result of the things that I had endured as a result of the relationship I constantly recreated. So you may date seven people, but you're really dating one person and that person is actually yourself. You're dating manifestations of what you believe about yourself. And until that changes, you will not be able to have. Desired experience. It is not possible. Right, right. It's like you're the, the common denominator. Oh, absolutely. Right. I always say my exes are crazy, but I was the only one that was completed. So, you know out. Right, right, right. And I, I, I remember in the, um, the master's interview you talked about, like in this process of, of like stillness, like you, um, started coloring and you started baking. Um, what did that, what, what were those things for you? What in, in your process of healing? Yeah, so I have a lot of coloring books. I was speaking at a conference in Australia recently and um, there were a few people who had heard me prior to me getting there. And one of the gifts was this beautiful coloring book. So what happened is I hit a bottom in a relationship and it was so painful. I really felt broken beyond repair. I remember even when I began to heal from that, I felt that there were pieces. That were so broken that they weren't even manufactured anymore, and that I would never, ever come together. You know, that was, um, it was years after the movie Jerry McGuire. And so there was this line in Jerry McGuire that everyone started saying, and it was, you Complete me. Right? So I think that people look for a reason to say that to someone, and I'll tell you, it's so dangerous. It's so dangerous when we adopt things without examining whether it fits in our, our, um, view of what true is. Right? Here's what I learned. No one completes me. I'm already splendid, whole and divine. You can compliment what's there. So it is now incumbent upon me to do the work necessary so that I am clear on my value. I was so shattered that I could not dream anymore. Now you need to understand I have Dream Books. I have dream journals. I keep one by my, uh, bed so that if something happens, I can write it down and then I can, you know, define it and the symbolism. And so I'm, I'm really connected to all of that. And I was so brokenhearted that I flatlined emotionally and I was unable to dream. Everything was just browns and, and dark blues and grays. And I live a life of color. I live a life of, of vividness and technicolor. And so I began coloring. Uh, I would watch cartoons Saturday morning. I would eat a bowl of Cocoa Puffs in my bed. And I no longer have a TV in my bedroom. But I would, I would sit in my bed, I would eat Cocoa Puffs, I would watch cartoons. And then I would get my coloring book. And I remember I started with a box of 12 crayons. Now I have the box of 105 crayons. I also have coloring pencils and sketch pads and all of that. Wow. And what it did is it allowed me to learn how to dream again. That's what it did. It allowed me to introduce color back in my life. It allowed me to, to leave the thought process and really be present in my body. That's what it did. And so, um, and it was fabulous. And the cake, I can't believe that I talked about the cake thing. So here's what was going on. I didn't wanna act out. Right. Um, and you know, I, I, who knows who's gonna listen to this, but, um, I was raised that I get over one person by getting with someone else. And that had to stop. Because if you don't wanna feel lost, stop sleeping with strangers. I. Right. And stranger is not someone I just met Stranger. Could be someone you've known for years, but you are not spiritually connected to. If there is no spiritual connection, you are literally sleeping with a stranger. Right? I mentor a number of people and I can't tell you how often, um, I see, you know, someone get together and they think that he wants to stay with them when he just wants to lay with them. Very different. Very different. And when there are children that end up being a part of this equation, it's painful to watch. It's unfair, and it's painful to watch. So I, um, in order to make sure I did not act out. I would bake a cake and I would beat it by hand. And what that did is it was a self-affirming action. It was an action of love. It was, it was creative. And I love chocolate cake. I only made chocolate cake. I did not make any other cake. And I don't like frosting. So I would not frost it. And I would make it for friends, and I would give them like a little thing of frosting, though. They wanted to frost it. They could, but I wasn't doing it. And uh, you know, sometimes it would be a three cake week, right? Because, just to make sure that I did not dishonor myself. That was the goal. The goal was I was, I was being spiritually and emotionally reconfigured. And when that's happening, it isn't just, I blink my eye and I become a different person. I have to surrender and surrender as a process. And it could be painful. I have a friend, he always says the thing about grace is it doesn't feel graceful. Right. I can't. Oh, I love that. Right? I can't see that I'm being held, I'm being held, and I'm being moved from one space to the other. But it requires my cooperation, right? If I didn't wanna keep having the same experience, I needed to learn how to do something different. And that, that is a process. It is a process for me to stand, to walk from one side of the room to the other, and who I become in that walk, right? Who do I become because I'm being re refined as I walk. And so the cake, the coloring, um, the meditation walk that I developed later and meditation walks means I am just walking. I'm acknowledging spirit, the power of healing, love and light, uh, that is my guiding force. And so I'm acknowledging beauty in everything I see. And I'm saying thank you. I'm saying thank you. One of the most valuable lessons I've learned is that Thank you is an action. Love is an action. Oh, right. Render is an action. Right. So life has to be a verb. It cannot be a noun. Life has to be a verb. Oh, I love that. Life has to be a verb. Wow. Okay. Yeah. That, that resonates. And you know, for our listeners, like for some, they've never, they, they never experienced, um, you know, any addictions to alcohol or drugs or, um, maybe grow, maybe experience being homeless. But, but I mean, this resonates in general to the human experience. How, how would you say. Like, how was that process for you from going into Okay. And acknowledging and having that conscious awareness of like, okay, I need to, I need to be still'cause I need to change up those patterns. Right. Um, but also when you, when you went through that process in the future, how does that translate to how you show up in, in dating, in future dating and, and like, how was that process for you? So, I wanna first talk about addiction and the misconception that so many people have. Addiction is spiritual. That's the first thing, right? And that was the biggest lesson. Uh, you know, you have a lot, the medical industry wants to, to come up with their solutions, which are very different than the solution that I have applied. I'm sober a super long time at this point, and uh, I don't take anything that affects me from the neck up. But when we talk about addiction. Addiction goes beyond alcohol and drugs, right? There's food addiction, there's addiction to money, there's addiction to, um, being perceived a certain way, right? And the, the addiction is more like an obsession. And so behind obsession, um, is a desire to be restored, right? So when you, there's a song from the eighties and it was called Obsession. You're My Obsession. Who do you want me to be to make you sleep with me? Right? It was this really catchy song. And, and, um, don't ask me why remember the song, but so, so, um, but when someone says, I'm obsessed with you, and the person on the receiving end may think that's a compliment, it is not. It is not. It's coming from a very unhealed, unhealthy place because obsession is about power. Obsession is about when I get this, I will become that. So when we start looking at addiction, um, when I would pick up a drink, I would be transported. So my reality was painful. It was painful. The past I had come from the experiences I had, I was navigating on my own trying to figure out who I should be, how I should show up, how I should sound, how I want it to be portrayed. That's exhausting. And so I could just take a drink and voila, I was wherever I wanted to be, whether I actually moved or not, it felt like I had been transported. So when I put down, uh, alcohol and drugs and anything else, right, that, that alters my consciousness. Now I have to deal with all of the other addictions that are going to present themselves, right? You'll see it with people who lose weight. If they don't identify why they gained that weight, they're just gonna move from food to something else, right? Mm-hmm. Food to sex addiction to gambling. But it is a spiritual void that we are trying to fill at all times. So I don't believe anyone who may listen to this podcast has to have any experience with, um, drugs and alcohol, but I guarantee you they have experience with addiction. I can't tell you, especially because I was in the corporate space for many years, how many people are addicted to a certain persona and what they will do, I will, I would watch them contort themselves and live outside of their truth in order to be perceived a certain way. And I believe that everyone should live well. The, the steps that are taken to get there must be integral, must be in alignment with our values, right? So when, when I, or when anyone I mentor begin living outside of their values, that's an addiction. They are addicted to whatever that is. And they're willing to go beyond, um, their truth, their emotional security, because that's when we find ourselves homeless. Uh, the other misconception is when I start doing work with individuals, you know, I have people who are very accomplished, who work with me, private clients, and they will say, I know your story. We get to the homeless section of my workbook. I know your story. I just want you to know I've never been homeless. Well, that's great. That's awesome. Hey, for you, right? And then we get into the work. Physical homelessness does not mean you have lived on the streets. It means that you are in an environment that you do not feel safe. You do not trust those around you. You do not feel supported. And so, because I have lived on the streets, I understand that the mindset becomes feral. When I am showing up constantly, when I'm dating someone I don't trust, right? That is, that is a form of living homeless. I am not anchored, right? I can't find my footing. I'm not standing on solid ground. It's the same thing when you live on the streets. You're constantly watching your surroundings. You're constantly assessing, you're constantly measuring, you're constantly trying to make sure that you're safe, that they're not gonna take anything from you. See, exact same thing. And so the series I do, and we look at emotional homelessness, the inability to connect with another human being, and that comes first because we are not connected with our own spirit. And so there is work to do to clean those spaces out. In order to go there. Let's say you invite me over your home and you say, Candace, you got, I just moved into this amazing house, right? I have, I have 10 rooms and I go over to your home. I'm super excited. I bring a gift, right? And um, and so you start to take me through and as we're walking down the hallway, all these doors are closed. And I'm like, oh, what's in there? Oh, there's a lot of stuff I haven't unpacked yet. What's in there? Oh, there's a lot of stuff. I haven't unpacked it, so, so there's 10 rooms, but only two of them are accessible. There's only two that I'm actually able to see. And so when I start doing that series, we are looking at our emotional, mental, and spiritual home. Am I accessible? Wow. And what do I need to clean out? Are there memories that have changed how I feel about me? Which changes how I feel about you when I date? Now there's a period of becoming acquainted. The beauty of doing work, of healing work is you begin to understand that you are an investment. And the biggest discovery right, that I made was that I'm an inve. I had no idea, and I would never know that if every time I meet someone were together immediately. Right? I don't know your values, I don't know your goals. I don't know who you are. I may have have seen you around. We may have had a couple of conversation, but now we're building something. So I get to ask myself, what is my goal in this? In every relationship, not just romantic friendship, business relationship. Are we aligned? That's incredibly valuable and, and I also remember when my body became sacred. Oh my God, that was such a huge shift because I had never taken the time to examine. Whether I felt sacred to myself. And if I'm not sacred, if I don't understand that my body is a gift, then I will give it away. Um, thoughtlessly, right? Mm-hmm. So I'm having all these different experiences. Um, I had to become discerning, and that is a part of healing when I began healing and understanding that I'm not broken. That I am whole, complete, splendid and divine. So I love that. Splendid. Any, anywhere I invest my time in there has to be a return on investment. And so, you know, I'll, I'll give you this, I'll give you this, uh, memory. I was dating someone and, uh, I wait 90 days before moving forward, before there's even a consideration of moving forward on a more personal level. Those 90 days give us an opportunity to get to know each other, right? To look at our spiritual beliefs because, uh, it is very important that I don't practice organized religion, but I have a very developed spiritual practice. And it is important that my partner have some type of spiritual practice as well. Uh, because if you are not grounded in a power greater than yourself of healing, of love, of light, then you are grounded in ego. And I don't know of any successful relationships when people are grounded in ego. Right? Right. Ego is flimsy. It is fleeting. It lives in fear, it lives in insecurity. It comes from lack. So that is not, I can't build from that. So I learned via a very good friend of mine, she lives in Concord, California. And, um, she had gone through these relationships and hit this bottom and she, she required herself to wait 90 days. When she first mentioned it to me, I thought that was extreme. And I remember her saying, people with self-esteem do that. I thought, oh, well. And uh, so I remember implementing that and this has been for many years. This is how I've lived for many years. Remember the implementation of that, the, the discussion with the person I was dating saying this is, you know, the space that I desire to occupy and, uh, I want us to wait 90 days and take that time to get to know one another, to see if we have similar values because physical attraction is fleeting. Do we have anything outside of that? And am I worth more than that? That's really what, when we talk about core beliefs, what is my core belief about myself? Am I worth waiting for? Do I feel that I can ask this person to wait and to be monogamous, right? So if someone says we want an open relationship, that's fine. Right there, there's no rule. It is, it is creating, um, a home that you are comfortable in, an emotional health you are comfortable in. And I remember, um, you know, I remember the first conversation when I began dating this way and really being nervous about, um, are they gonna wait? Are they not gonna wait? And so at some point it was, it's their loss. If they don't, if they're dishonest, if they do something else because they're impatient. Any of that, uh, that I'm worth waiting for. So who I became during those 90 days, and I remember, uh, the person I was dating, rented a suite at, uh, four Seasons, Beverly Hills. So we were going to celebrate Right. The 90 days that were coming up. Yeah. And I realized I was not ready. I realized because I had waited, now I'm aware of what's involved. Right, right. When I don't wait, I, I'm not aware. I'm just like, you're cute. I'm cute. Let's, let's get together, let's share this. But what I'm sharing is really sacred. It had never been sacred. It had never been sacred. It was something I did. It's just a part of a re No, it's not, you have to be very special for me to share myself with you because this is a gift, because I am sacred. So when I became sacred, when my body became sacred, my entire life changed. My confidence grew my shoulder squared, my head lifted it. I cannot tell you the power and the strength. I became a different woman. I became Wow. And if I had not felt so shattered, shattered enough to, to do the work on a much deeper level, really examine those poor beliefs, how these things that happened in my background affected me. How having the, the, um, unsafe situations, right? Because when you come from the type of trauma I came from, everything becomes one frequency. You have to normalize it or you're gonna lose your mind. Mm-hmm. So a part of the work I do deals with emotional dyslexia, right? When we mislabel emotional miswiring. So when I call pain love, I call abuse passion, right? And so many people are living with emotional dyslexia. You have to normalize it unless you're gonna change it. Wow. You know, I, I resonate with, I mean. All of what you're saying. Um, you know, for me, and I, and I'll kind of bring up a little bit about me'cause that's what this podcast is. Mm-hmm. Um, but for me, you know, I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't do drugs. I don't drink coffee. Like, I try to stay away from anything that I feel like my body will feel like it needs to function. Mm-hmm. Right. And so, you know, I had no addictions to any of that, but one thing that I had to come to terms with in the last year was that, uh, about a year ago now, was that, uh, I was addicted to porn. And after leaving a very profound relationship, it was only a four month relationship. I realized that, um, it, it, it surfaced a lot that I needed to, to look at and, and heal. And after that, I, um, I had no appetite for a relationship. I had no appetite for sex, which was very sh. Strange to me because that's, you know, I unfortunately had sexual trauma, traumatic experiences from such a young age that built this version of me that, that sex was a way I identified myself. And so as I started to dive deep into, okay, like I acknowledge that I have this addiction, but it also ties into all of this, I had to do my own, um, and still am in the process of, of being still and, and going celibate. And, you know, at first it was, it, it really wasn't by choice. It was by flow. Again, there, that appetite wasn't there. But now as I, as I've started to jump back into the dating pool, it's definitely intentional for me to, to, um, to know when I'm ready, right? Because. Not only have I done all this healing, but for the first time in my life, this next person that I choose to have a sexual experience with, uh, to share my body with for the first time in my life, it's, it's intentional on my side, it is my choice. But, but at the same time, you know, I'm still trying to, to, through that process, learn, um, how far is sharing, you know, how much is too far with sharing myself, um, whether it's physically or when it comes to the, the dating process. I definitely feel like I'm, I'm taking my time more than ever because again, it's, it's just more that of that conscious awareness to, to be intentional because I deserve it. But I, I really love that 90 day rule. I think that resonates really well for me. Um, and it, I don't know that I'm fully there in that process of like, feeling that, that fullness of, I, I guess I'm still learning through that process. Right. I mean, we talk about like the, the emotional wellness in this process, and I know that you talk about emotional fitness a lot. Can, can you break down what that means and how someone can start working on their own emotional fitness through a process like this or in general? So the question I have for you, and then I'll, I'll, I'll weave it into, uh, our discussion is, so when you're seeking connection, what does that symbolize for you? What is that when I'm seeking connection? Oh, that is such a great question. Um, it symbolizes expansion. Um. For me, it's become, it's, I've learned like again, relationships in general were a way I identified myself and it felt more like a have to do than a get to do because it was who I was. I was able to experience a connection that expanded my piece and, and I wasn't ready for it. And so as I'm going through this process, I'm actually really, uh, honing in more on exactly what I'm seeking. But I would say expansion would be the biggest thing and someone to share, you know, my spiritual journey with. So when I, when I listen to you, it, I don't get clarity from how you're answering the question. And that means that you are still in the process of evaluating, which is great. Right? Which is great. And when we talk about waiting 90 days, your response is very common. Um, I think that's great. I don't know that I could do it. So then the question I'm asking you is, do you feel worthy of someone waiting 90 days for you? What is the fear that comes up? Because I'm gonna tell you, when it was first mentioned to me, I was, I dismissed it immediately. Like there's no need. It wasn't until three years later when I hit a bottom in relationships because of my behavior, because of my homeless behavior in relationship, that I couldn't do anything but something different. So I could not do 90 days. Like I, I was so afraid that if I were to touch someone, that I would disintegrate because it just hurt. It hurt to no longer. Once I became aware that I am living out, it's like I, I have this beautiful home and I choose to live outside every time, every time I was with someone whom I was not emotionally and spiritually connected to us. Being a cute couple and laughing, uh, at a few things together is simply, that is not how I define connection. It is spiritual. It is emotional. There has to be some like-mindedness there in order, because I'm building, I can't build, we're building two different homes, right? We don't even know the floor plan. So how can I be connected with you when we want two different things? Connection for me is just taking time to examine, do we have the elements that we can build together? And if I don't wanna build with you, why am I with you? Right? Right. So am I just feeling the time? And so is that all that I'm worth? Is that what I am a filler? These are questions that come up. So when we talk about emotional fitness, emotional fitness, there is a process, right? So my workbook, let's unpack core beliefs. There is a process and you start with love. And so you examine how love was formulated, how that concept, um, became implanted, and what it looks like to dismantle it and to repurpose it. And the beauty of the work I do, uh, whether I'm doing a series where people can register and join or whether I'm doing one-on-one, um, work, I. Is, you're never gonna be told what to do. You're going to be challenged with the information you find, because I'm not going to take responsibility for your life. You are. Right, right. And so there has to be a commitment when you start doing the work. Love, sex, consent, right? Because of this belief about love. How does that influence how I view sex? And how does consent, what does consent look like in my life, not just in my sexual relationships, in every aspect of my life? Consent is huge. What am I saying yes to that I wanna say no to that. I'm afraid that you will reject me, that I will be ostracized, that I won't fit, right? So how am I living outside of my values as a direct result of this fractured belief system? And then we start examining guilt. Right, and loyalty. What does that look like? What does loyalty look like? And when we look at loyalty, we have to examine self betrayal. If you share with me that you were in a relationship for 11 years and the majority of it, it was not working, that is a demonstration of self betrayal. And so and so, how many individuals do we know that will literally say, well, I love myself. I love myself, and it doesn't matter if you buy expensive things, it doesn't matter. The process that I do requires people to stand naked, emotionally, right, to stand emotionally bare, so that when you put something on your body, on your spirit, you are intentional. You want the finest fabrics to touch you. Nothing. Nothing less than that will be acceptable. But moving into that space, that is a process that is a lot of work. And so by the time we get to the emotional fitness spectrum, we've looked at a lot of areas we've looked at emotional security, how we define it, right, what we settle for, when we don't have it, who we become as a direct result of what we ask for versus what we settle for. Right? And that's when we start moving into emotional scarcity, emotional anorexia, emotional martyrdom, emotional dyslexia, emotionally, self-supporting, right? Because there are different manifestations of that spectrum and where we stand in it at any given moment. Wow. Um, so you mentioned emotional anorexia. What, what, what would that be? It is, uh, emotional starvation. It is emotional deprivation. Wow. Right. So it is saying that you don't need something that you absolutely do in order to be sustained, in order to grow, in order to be nurtured, in order to feel safe, in order to feel protected. Right. And, you know, um, if someone's in an unhealthy relationship, uh, where neglect is present, where abuse is present, there is a section on abuse, uh, emotional, mental, physical abuse in the workbook. But if you are living in that space, um, more than likely you're experiencing emotional anorexia because you literally have to deny yourself in order to, to make this work. Wow. That's very powerful. And also, you know, resonates as well. And I think it will, it resonates with many people, you know? Oh, of course, absolutely. Through, through process. Yeah. It's just giving words to it, right. And then putting skin on it. So we name it and then we clothe it, so it's like, oh, I didn't know it was showing up like this. I remember I was doing a workshop and, um, I think it was guilt and shame, and there's, there's, uh, shame-based inventory. Um, that's a part of the work I do as well, because so many people are coming from a space of shame and that they won't talk about, they won't examine. And until you do, there's always gonna be three people in the room. Right. Until you, until you are willing to look at shame, especially if you've come from, um, any type of trauma, uh, childhood trauma, young adult, uh, trauma, there's always gonna be, uh, a large source of shame. And I will tell you, you can't outre it. You can't out earn it. You just can't. It doesn't matter how much money you make, it doesn't matter how many degrees you have. Shame does not care. It doesn't, trauma does not pay attention to any of it, right? And so that's, when you look at suicide rates, that's when you look at, um, self-harm rates, right? Because they are literally driven by shame. Afraid to, to sit. And it's as if they think they're just gonna fall apart, but they fell apart a long time ago. And so we're, we're, it's just fragments of ourselves that's showing, you know, it's really a fascinating process. I mean it absolutely brilliant and, and it's emotional and it's challenging and it's all of that. And so, you know, being willing to create safe spaces as you being the, as you begin going through it, when I'm doing a six week series, you know, the one thing that became very important is when we end.'cause I usually do it over Zoom. And so when we end, we, we anchor ourselves, we do a meditation to come back into our bodies, right? And so we have a plan of action. So this afternoon I'm going to do what in order to be gentle with myself in order to, um, wrap a warm blanket around myself because we discussed. Information, memories, emotions, uh, that will leave you feeling wrong. And that's a part of the healing process. That's a part of disrobing. Right. You know, and the, the healing process, you know, as I, I've learned in my journey and, and as we've heard through many, it's, it's an ongoing process. Right. Um, but, uh, yeah, I, I mean I've, I, there's a lot of clarity that's even that's coming to me through this as well. Um, one of the most powerful things that you've said, um, is asking that question, is that what love looks like? Um, that, that question was so impactful to me in your, in your, uh, interview that I heard, um, many years ago. Um, what was the moment that made you ask yourself that? And how do you, how do you now, how has that evolved to how you. Help others or, or, or guide others in redefining love. There wasn't a moment I,'cause I've noticed that you've asked me that a few times with different things. What was this moment? What was that? It's not, they all work together, right? Mm-hmm. So when I said felt broken, I had felt broken way before I acknowledged because that's why I was taking the actions I was taking. A woman who knows her word, who is healed, who feels beautiful, whether she has makeup on, no makeup on, hair on, no hair on right, big boobs, little boobs, big butt, little, doesn't matter, uh, uh, pooch or a flat stomach. A woman who knows her worth is going to require certain things of herself and of anyone that she allows in her life, right? And so when I, I went through that breakup, I felt broken way before that. I didn't have the language and I wouldn't sit still long enough to acknowledge it because it was painful, it was scary, and I didn't know what I was going to do with it. So after coming through that process and begin, um, asking myself, what does love look like? I started with the relationships in my life, not my ex. That was hideous. No, my friendships, right? My friendships. How do I love my friends? Because that's such an intimate relationship. Oh my God, we love on each other. We are supportive, we are honest, we are thoughtful. We are considerate, right? And so that's how I started building what love was. Love renews. It expands. It is foundational. It supports, it challenges, it reaffirms, right? It doesn't demean. It doesn't betray, it doesn't belittle, it doesn't abuse. It doesn't cause you to second guess your worth. And I, because of my emotional dyslexia, I was living in the latter. And I was like, well, you know, I would say like, I would say what other people say, well, love hurts. No, it does not. Love does not hurt. Betrayal hurts. Abuse hurts. Being taken for granted. Hurts being neglected. Hurts being manipulated. Hurts being exploited, hurt, love renews. Love does not hurt. Love is a source of renewal. Love is the fountain of youth. Love breathes life into things that are withered. Wow. I, I love the way you speak another thing that's coming back to me from that interview is, is to your point of like, it's not just a moment, um, but how life in general prepares us. Or takes us through the, these experiences that, that start to, um, awaken our, our awareness. Um, lemme ask you a question and not being just those specific moments, where are you with porn? Uh, I, staying away from it. It's been, I haven't watched porn in 10 months. So how do you label it? Like, where does it fit? Is it good, bad? Is it just, is, is it, is it, I don't consider it necessarily good or bad. I think that it was just, uh, something that I, that felt, um, like it was a part of who I was and, and it was something that, there was a sense of comfort in it. And I, I don't need that for comfort anymore. I've found comfort in myself in so many. Other ways through, through just being with self, through meditating, through breath work, through, um, focusing on, on my network, on the people who nourish me. Mm-hmm. So the reason I ask is when I am working with individuals who are letting something go, oftentimes they label it right? And so that's why I ask, is it good? Is it bad? Is it, you know, the right is wrong? Is it uncomfortable? Is it something that you feel might engulf you? What I find when I leave a relationship, honestly, right? So supporting, that's a relationship, right? And who do I become when I, when I'm engaging in this relationship, when I leave a relationship, honestly, I, I don't have to make it good or bad. It simply doesn't support my growth, right? It doesn't support my highest good. And, you know. I feel that two consenting adults can design a relationship any way they want. I have mentored people who have an open relationship. They have certain agreements that they do not violate. If they violate, it's considered cheating. Right? And so I, and I remember learning that. I was like, oh, so it's an open relationship, but you can't do this or you can't do that. And, and so I get it, right? It is, I don't have any opinion on any of it. What I found for myself is I just wanna be honest with where I am, and I wanna not judge it because when I judge it, I become dishonest. When it becomes right or wrong, good or bad, I become dishonest because now I'm afraid of not living up to these, these expectations. And so if I recognize, you know. I may engage in porn at some point. Right now, it feels as if it's detracting from the experience I wanna have. Oh, okay. Right. So it doesn't have to be this sinister thing. It is. I was seeking, um, I was, I was engaging in this porn or whatever it is. I was engaging in this because I was avoiding that. And that's typically what happens. That's what happens with addiction. I'm engaging in this because I don't know how to be here. Right. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, and to that point, and, you know, a big part of my healing process has been, um, removing that self-judgment and Exactly. Really, um, realizing that the parts of myself that I once judged, um, I mean, a lot of those parts were there to protect me. Yeah. They were really just trying to protect me and, and they are a part of me. Right. Um, an example would be like, whether we're talking about ego or fear, um. You know, I, I sometimes, you know, we hear things like, you know, you kind of gotta get that outta the way or, you know, work on that ego death. And, and I think some of that process is true, but it's not literal. Right. Um, you know, it's, it's more about getting to this place where you realize that again, it's trying to protect you. It's trying to to be there for you. Um, and the more you try to fight it, the more you're really fighting yourself. Mm-hmm. And, and so in realizing that I've learned, the more that I nourished it, and that's really what it needed, the more that I, um, showed up for those parts of me, the, that I dropped that personal judgment was when I realized, you know, I, I, I can love those parts of me and there's times where those parts may try to come back up, but now that I've. For lack of a better word, befriended, um, those parts of me. You know, I can have that, that gentle conversation. Right. I think that's one thing that I learned from your interview as well, is being gen, talking, speaking gently to yourself. Yes. And, and ask that part of me, you know, let it know that I'm safe. Let it know that, that I, I'm grateful that it's here, but I I'm not in need of, you know, that fear or, or I'm, I'm fine. Yeah. Right. And so that's where, you know, the judgment on, on the porn for me has been, um, not only embracing that it was a part of my journey, right? Like there's a, there's a process of understanding, like, you know, our story has brought us to where we're at, right? Things are happening for us, not to us, but also, um, really allowing myself just to feel through it because I can try to alchemize everything and I did for so many years and just focus on the positive things. But if I don't focus on. On the duality of it, I don't, I don't fully take myself in. I don't fully embrace myself. Right? There's still a portion of shame, you know, right. In, in moving into a space of forgiveness, which is, for me, that's the last door, right? Forgiveness, being able to open it into this, it opens onto an, an open floor plan, right? Forgiveness, because now I have all this room to move around and before forgiveness, being shame-based, grieving, shame-based grieving was crucial in me being able to start having conversations with myself, meeting myself where I was, and allowing myself to be there for as long as I needed to be there. Right? It's wonderful to say, oh, I'm just not doing this anymore. Then you do it again because you're not done right. And understanding that I wanna get done and I'm going to take actions that help me get done. Um, but if I repeat this again, then I need to exercise some gentleness with myself. And, and where, where shame-based grieving came in. You know, we talked about the death of my mother, which happened recently. Uh, and my mother was unwell and she heard a lot of people. Um, and because of that, she spent many, many, many years in prison. So she was out a very short time and she died because of the nature of that terror. I had to grieve her a long time ago, and I've had to grieve many things. But it was that relationship that was a catalyst for me, understanding how that relationship, which should have been the, the. Central relationship of safety and love, and it was not how everything else was off kilter as a result. And that the prism that I was, I was examining life myself, love, safety, right? What's acceptable behavior, what's not acceptable was all of that. So when I moved into the process of grieving, the difference between grieving someone you love and someone who has hurt you, which is where shame comes, right? If I have, uh, any type of emotional trauma and I address it individually and I have to grieve each and every part of that, right? So, uh, being a child and experiencing non-consensual experiences and the person responsible for that, the person who I defined as love this, this was someone who. I loved and who I know loved me, but because they were broken the way they loved hurt and caused harm in my life. And the reluctance of grieving is this person, or this has hurt me. I don't wanna give them any more attention. But you have to. You have to. Right. You have to be willing to, to say, this was a significant re It couldn't have hurt me if it were not significant. This was not a stranger. These were people I trusted. And the violation is so off the charts I have to, that I have to acknowledge it for what it in, and I have to be willing to grieve it. And so I am grieving, you know, especially with my mom. I grieve that she was never going to be the mother I, I desired. She could not be, she was not able. She was a spiritually, mentally sick individual. She just was. And it's awful. And it's a fact. So in order for me, she was in prison for me for over 30 years. So in order for me to not be in prison with her mentally, emotionally in bondage, I needed to grieve that so that I could love her, not have contact, but love her and pray for her healing and wholeness. Right? Right.'cause I have to live in love. I have to love boldly. I need to lean into love. Not a way, not have a I, people who use words like boundaries all the time. You know, my boundaries. I'm like, oh my God, there's just so much division and separation in that I'm not living in that I have a value system and our values are aligned or we don't interact. It's okay. Right. But boundaries from, you're like, I'm putting up this wall. I'm putting up that wall, and you can't go here and you can't go there. And it's just a lot of it just is, it just feels very confined. I don't wanna live in a confined space. I wanna live in an open floor plan. Mm. And so I began to attract that, which I seek when I become it. So this is about the process of becoming the process of emerging. Right? It's emerging. That's my email emerge@moreengrace.com. Everything is about emerging and transformation. You know, we're entering into spring. Spring is my favorite time of the year because it's about rebirth, it's about new, it's about renewal. It's fabulous. Wow. So you, you talked about this, I believe you said, self value system. Mm-hmm. How, how does one begin that process? Or, you know, is that something that you, um, take people through in your, in your workshops, through your workbook? Absolutely. Yeah. It's all a part of it, right? Because we go through so many sections. Um, and, you know, I mentioned. A few of them to you. And as you go through these, these, um, sections of the workbook there, there, uh, rooms in your spiritual health rooms, in your emotional health. So each and every topic is designed to, to unpack a part of yourself and give you an opportunity to clean that space out so that you can now design the type of home that you really wanna live in. So many of us have furniture that's not even comfortable in our house because it's not for us, it's because it looks good, right? So I'm gonna invite people over and they're gonna think, but it's like, get furniture that you, I like comfy furniture. I don't like, you know, super, um, that austere look. And you know, this was a very expensive look. I don't care. I like comfy stuff. I like blankets, I like, I like warmth, I like colors. Right? I like that. And so. The people that I invite into my life are going to appreciate it because that is how we connect, right? So I don't need to have furniture that's uncomfortable, that's in my home. This is where I live. If I'm not authentic in the space that I live in, then I, there's no way that I can be value aligned in the world at large. It's all possible. Anyway, I wanna read this. I'm gonna read this to you. It's called You Left Me. Dear Me, what did I do that was so bad that you can't forgive me? How can I fix this, please? I didn't know how badly my leaving wounded you. I was clueless. I did the best I could. I hurt too. I need you. I know I left you. It is because I thought you would be better off without me. It felt like I was holding you back. Please give me another chance. I'd appreciate it. I'll do everything I can to be there for you moving forward. Yes, I've said it before. I still mean it today. As I did back then. I tried to protect you, honest. I gave it everything I had, but I couldn't protect you and I couldn't bear to face you. I'm constantly trying to improve so that you may put your trust in me. I am out here by myself. You are the only one who knows how bad it was. You are the only one who knows how gross it was. You were the only person with whom I could talk. I felt so awful. I wanted to die. I couldn't wash it off. I tried. I stayed away from you because I was ashamed. I was afraid you wouldn't take me back. I could not take letting you down. One more time. I need you. I need you. Without you, I am incomplete. Please forgive me. Signed lost without you. Now here is the response. Dear me, when you left, all I had was you. That hurt. Although I didn't know where you had gone, I wanted to call you. I believed that I had let you down and that you, like everyone else had given up on me. What you think of me matters more than what anyone else thinks of me. I felt totally alone. I'm happy you're back. I wanna think that you won't abandon me once more. Things get difficult. I love you. You mean everything to me. I forgive you. Now I understand. I didn't for a long time. I was frightened too. Promise me we will stick together from now on. Sincerely, I missed you. This is. Self forgiveness. This is self writing to self. Wow. Right. Oh gosh, that, that's a hundred percent. Um, actually a lot of what I'm going through with, with myself and, and, and going and, and, um, finally seeing, um, the trauma and the pain that I went through, through, um, some childhood experiences at such a young age that I once saw as, as these, I once alchemized and saw them as these feel good experiences, but really there were, they, they, they were painful experiences and, and you know, for the first time in my life, allowing myself to dive into like grief, depression. Mm-hmm. Um, pain. Regret, right. These, these things where I'm grateful that I'm at a point where like I can pull myself out of them, but really allowing myself to fully marinate in them. Yeah. So that I can understand where, so that I can fully hear and see my inner child, my childhood self, um, and, and what, what I went through, which is our'cause for so long I couldn't see it. Yeah, yeah. Well, you normalize it. You have to, it's either you normalize it or you go crazy, right? Yeah. And so my inner child, I used to have such an aversion to that term. I'm like, oh. Um, and what I understand is my inner child is simply my innocence. And that's why I had an aversion to it because I, I felt that that had been taken from me from a very young age and that nothing about me was innocent. And that belief fueled my adolescent behavior, which fueled my young adult behavior. Right. And so I was taking that into adulthood. Just because we grow older doesn't mean we mature. And what healing work does is it allows us to grow up, it allows us to, to still be childlike, right? That is the beauty of healing. Tapping into that innocence, you know, for my birthdays, I've had birthday parties at skating rinks and um, I did a Hello Kitty party like a number of years ago. Because why not? Because why not? Right? Because, um, because I get to, to explore those things that are fun. That's, that's a part of coloring. Like there's no judgment there. It's just pretty colors. And I can do, um, blue and purple. I can do red and green. It doesn't matter. It's okay if this is what I want it to look like. I can color outside the lines, you know? When I was putting the workbook together and I remember writing this portion, it just kind of came together and looking at the letter from, apologies. This plane is plane. There's, yeah, there's, I apologize that to land. That's all right. Um, but I remember, I, you know, like I remember this particular portion and the, the thought process was how many times have I abandoned myself? How many times have I pulled myself, pulled over, told myself to get out, I'll be right back and just left myself there. Right. It was kind of like that. And so when I am grieving this person and I'm grieving that experience, and, but what I have not looked at is how many times I wanted you to be there for me and I wasn't there for me. And that is where. False dependency. That is where addiction happens. So again, I'll go back to our beginning conversation and we talked about, you know, um, alcohol and people who don't have alcohol or drug addiction, but they have addiction. They have addiction. So many people are addicted to being with someone because that is how they view their worth. If this person desires me, then I must be okay. Then. Anything that happened must not have stuck, then surely I'm still worthy. The worth cannot come from them because what if they decide they no longer love you? What does that mean that you're no longer lovable? That's crazy. Right? So I have to love me. I have to be willing, willing to stand for me. I have to be. I have to be. Gosh, I love that. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I had had a, I did have that addiction. All of us have, and in one form or another, you know, even if it's for our mother's love or our our best friend's love or this, we've all had it in, in one degree and it's okay. Right? So we, we become aware and we make different, uh, decisions. Right? I wanna do this. I'm gonna read this. This is what, this is the last thing I'm gonna read. Hold on. So you know that I published my calendar. Hopefully you'll support it. Um, so the more grace meditation 2025 meditation. Um, I'm only reading it because it's so apropos for what you and I have been discussing. So the month of the month of March is called, would You Still Love Me? Is that not brilliant? Like it's not perfect time. Okay. Right. Would you still love me if you knew how many times I failed? Would you still love me if you knew the darkest part of me? Would you still love me if you knew how afraid I get? Would you still love me if you knew what I had done? I caused pain to the people I held. Dear, these are questions to ask yourself. The answer should always be a resounding yes. Are you ready to love yourself? Like the answer to your dreams? Are you willing to be supportive? Offering a solid shoulder to lean on and as much compassion and understanding as you would a cherished friend, the first healthy relationship must be with yourself. And so there's a mantra here. It's a suggested mantra. It says, I love you. I will never leave you. I believe in you. This is what we say to ourselves. And there's a meditation. So the meditation is let yourself off the hook to sit in that space. Allowing yourself to be human, to be frail, to, to be vulnerable, and to be strong, and to know that all those are true. And then there is an action, and the action is to live in conscious acceptance of all of you, Simon of March. Thank you so much for sharing that. Um, thank you for this conversation. It was absolutely amazing. And, and, and we dove into some great things. Your wisdom, your story, and the way that you challenge us to see love healing and so forth differently is nothing short of transformative. For those who, um, are listening today, um, is there anywhere that they could reach out to you or, um, your website where they can access the workbook? Sure. So my, uh, the name of my company is Moore Dash Grace, so M-O-O-R-E hyphen G-R-A-C-E. Uh, so the website is more grace.com and the name of the workbook is, let's Unpack Core Beliefs. Great. Thank you so much again for Oh, good to see you, Javier. Thank you so much. So good to see you too, canal. So awesome. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna play that master that was like, God, you, I have such a great memory, but I really appreciate you and thank you for sharing your journey with me as well. Thank you for being a part of my journey. Have a beautiful rest of your day. All right, you too. Bye bye. Thank you. Thank you everyone for tuning in Until next time. And remember, love isn't something we chase, it's something we're built for.